ASIAN ART

For almost 20 years, Ghada Amer (American, b. 1963 in Cairo, Egypt) has been part of the art world whilst continuously developing her practice. Contrary to other artists who have chosen one medium and followed that same path, Ghada Amer has simultaneously been working in painting, drawing, sculpture, and earthworks. Interestingly, these various media carry their own message, and do not stand as a mere repetition of her paintings with the ones featuring embroidery that are commonly acknowledged as her hallmark. Her sculpture and her earthworks exist in their own right and deserve additional attention.

Taking a stand on the status of women around the world, the contours of her message have shifted over the years, but remain very much connected to her personal experience. Determined to pursue her work in spite of commercial interests dictated by the art market, Ghada Amer remains what she has always been advocating through her art: a free artist. In the interview below, she discusses various aspects of her work with the Asian Art Newspaper.

Asian Art Newspaper: As an artist, you are generally known for your paintings. Your sculpture has recently received more exposure. Is your interest in sculpture a fairly recent development?

Ghada Amer: I have always done sculpture (sculpture or three dimensional pieces) since I started in 1993. That year I completed Conseils de Beauté du Mois d’Août, a piece based on four handkerchiefs on which I had embroidered beauty tips. That was the time when the curator Hans-Ulrich Obrist (presently co-director of exhibitions at the Serpentine Gallery, London) organised exhibitions in his hotel room. On one occasion, he had invited various artists, asking me whether I could do something in the cupboard. I immediately agreed, and I subsequently started with Conseils de Beauté du Mois d’Août, which was my first sculpture. Then, I did the maquette for Les Poufs followed by Barbie loves Ken, Ken loves Barbie, and La Belle au Bois Dormant with the text embroidered on the clothes.

AAN: Would you rather call them sculptures than installations?

GA: Yes. Installation is a big word because in my opinion installation is connected to the space. An installation is very site specific, which my work is not, it can stand anywhere. Then, the garden came about. I was at Le Crestet Centre d’Art in Vaison-la Romaine, France working on the first garden that I created and I was not at all satisfied with the result. I actually hated it, and I did not want to do any additional outdoor pieces. Through a different channel, Rosa Martinez (presently co-curator of the Axel Vervoordt Foundation) was aware about the idea of the piece. She loved it, and invited me three years later to make another garden. In the beginning, it was in very remote areas. I was invited 10 times and, little by little, I improved and ultimately I found a way of doing it. I owe the development of my sculptures mainly to Rosa Martinez and to various curators who invited me to do things that were a little bit different and out of the ordinary. Currently, I am working on pieces in bronze and resin. In the context of the opening of the Doha Museum, I met a passionate art lover who actually sponsored the entire show, and commissioned artists to complete pieces and experiment with new works. He came to New York and told me  how much he liked my work, but pointing to the fact that it could not really be shown in Doha, which I was aware of. I was given US$150,000 to experiment and produce a sculpture I had been dreaming about. To me, that sounded like a leap of faith. I wanted to take a project called One Hundred Words of Love further, but the challenge was to find a manufacturer who could produce it without altering it. Many manufacturers actually did not understand the piece and told me that technically it was not possible, which was not an option for me! I wanted to do this piece more than anything else, and I had to find a solution. Then, I met with the company I am working with now, and they were willing to give it a go. Ultimately, the piece was not in bronze because the budget I was given was not enough. Then Kukje Gallery and Cheim and Read Gallery saw the sculpture, and suggested I completed it in bronze, which I did. In addition, Tina Kim from Kukje Gallery wanted me to develop a whole body of work around that sculpture, taking over the production costs, which was fabulous.

AAN: You have also completed a number of earthworks. Are you pursuing them?

GA: Yes, I am. I am doing one in Washington DC this year. The Smithsonian is organising a show about artists who use earth. It is a wonderful opportunity, because
I cannot do these works in my backyard, and they are expensive. In addition, one needs the land, which
I do not have.

AAN: Some of your paintings feature a more overt iconography, did you do those with the intention to break taboos, or to stage a reality?

GA: Both. I grew up in France, and my parents were very conservative. To me, the French were the most liberated people. In my teens, I was always a prude and felt uncomfortable with my body. When I started with these works, I did it for myself, in order to break my taboo, and then it also stated a reality, but I only realised that afterwards. Some people state that the origin of these works lies in the fact that I am from the Middle East. I stated my reality, but it was not because I was from the Middle East. Then, I discovered that some French or even Americans shared similar problems which I felt was strange because when I came to the States, I assumed they would be more liberated about such issues.

AAN: You have completed a number of pieces in collaboration with Reza Farkhondeh. How did this collaboration come about ?

GA: We studied together in Nice, France, and then we came together to New York. There was a period when he went through a very difficult time of depression, eventually he stopped painting all together. He was convinced that painting was the cause of his depression and, therefore, he was not going to paint anymore. Later on, he was at my studio while I was travelling, and one day, he started to paint on my canvases. I was very surprised, but he explained he felt the background had some problems and that he was just helping me. It was very strange because he had not painted for over two years. Actually, I liked what he did, and it started like this. I used ‘his’ background, then I would go away, and he would add something else. I suddenly realised that we had been doing this for three years, and pointed to Reza that in my opinion we were actually collaborating. He did not view this as art and most importantly, he did not want to get depressed again. I kept feeling that was not right, that more than anything else, it was a collaboration. I was beginning to think about where this body of work would lead me because it was very interesting. I signed these works with RFGA, which is Reza Farkhondeh and Ghada Amer. Then, he got better and started to paint again for himself, and through painting we had actually found a way to communicate. When he realised that it was indeed collaboration, it was too late to re-sign all the paintings, consequently we kept the paintings as RFGA. We decided to do another body of work with drawings with both our names. Besides drawings and video, we have the intention to explore other media, and make some sculptures together.

AAN: With the recent changes in Egypt, could there be any plans for a show there?

GA: I showed in Egypt in 1997 in a very discrete way, but presently, my work (I am referring to the erotic work) does not belong there. As an artist and in consideration of exhibitions, I do not like my work to be broken apart, and to be shown in fragments: if I show my work, I like to show various pieces representative of different phases of my career. Therefore, I am in an awkward situation, and presently, I have no other plans to exhibit there. Of course, I followed the events of the past winter and current news very closely with the result that I could not work at all for nine months. I only recently began working again. That is why I am late for several projects.

AAN: Numerous artists from countries undergoing dramatic changes have seen their art strongly impacted by the demonstrations and upheavals. Was that the case for you too?

GA: I do not live in Cairo anymore, a city I left in 1974. I am Egyptian, but I do not create my art just  because I am Egyptian. Consequently, it is not something that influenced me. Indeed, I have followed and continue to follow the revolution very closely, but it does not inspire me. I am very engaged politically over there, but this is something different from my art which has always been political even long before the events started.

AAN: Besides a specific content, artists also try to convey something visually pleasing that can loosely be labelled as beauty. How would you define beauty?

GA: In my opinion, beauty, especially visual beauty, is related to something very strong that stays with you. When you see something nice, it may be pretty, but it does not stay with you. Beauty is something that when you look at it, you take it inside, and keep it with you.

AAN: Your work has been subject to various interpretations. Do you agree with the writings concerning your work?

GA: Not always because sometimes people want to put me in a box. First, I am an American artist born in Egypt. I grew up in France, studied there, and then I went to the United States. I see myself as an American artist, however, I realise that when I go to Egypt, they do not consider me as an Egyptian artist. In addition, I get very upset when I read that I use the Qur’an for ‘an erotic mixing’. I have never done that, and I find this scandalous! Neither is my work about women from the Middle East. If one looks closely, the women in my work are not Middle Eastern at all! It is not about the situation of the Middle East, it is about the situation of women in the world.

AAN: Over the past 15 years, your reference to the Encyclopaedia of Pleasure subsequently inspired your work.

GA: It is a very famous book among scholars. My sister, Sahar Amer, who is a scholar, has been doing some research on this book compiled around the 11th century by an Arab writer. We ended up finding a photocopy of the original. It is an encyclopaedia about sexual fulfilment, and the author was trying to understand what pleasure was. It is a very unique and beautiful book, and fortunately it has somehow always been passed on although it had been suppressed by an increasingly conservative society.

AAN: One article quoted you as saying ‘I wanted to live my own sexuality rather than paint it’.

GA: When I grew up, sexuality was forbidden. I had not much experience with sexuality. This had led me to do the work I do. I would rather have lived my sexuality and done something else, and who knows, maybe I would never have become an artist.

AAN: You have been creating pieces using thread for many years. Do you feel that these pieces based on thread are behind you?

GA: No. Of course, it has evolved a lot, but I am still exploring new possibilities. My whole idea was to paint with thread. Only now do I feel that I am beginning to literally ‘paint’ with thread. Pieces like The Black Bang (2010) or Roses for a Grey Winter (2010) are all much more painterly, and I have developed many more since.

AAN: You have been in the art world for quite some time. What are your upcoming challenges?

GA: I would like to increase the visibility of my work in museum collections. I do not know whether this has to do with the fact that my work is erotic. Looking back, I do not think I could have done this work had I not been in France earlier in my career. France has brought me a lot because when it comes to sexuality, the subject is not dramatised. On the contrary, it is very much part of life which is actually very beautiful. However, it is only after leaving France that I realised that France was an exception. The only people who do not see my work as being pornographic are the French and the Italians. My work is often labelled as pornographic or erotic. Both words have very different meanings and the word pornographic definitely has an immoral connotation when dealing with something erotic. The line between both notions ‘pornographic’ and ‘erotic’  is nevertheless rather blurred. When people want to shock, they tend to associate my work with the word pornographic. I would like to clarify these interpretations about my work, and try to make sure it is also increasingly represented within institutions.

AAN: If today you were given an important budget in order to complete a project, what would you do?

GA: I guess it would be related to sculpture. I find myself in the middle of a new experimentation process as well as at a turning point in my career.  With sculpture, I opened a door, and I am trying to discover what lies behind.

Upcoming exhibitions include: Musée d’art contemporain de Montréal, 2 February to 22 April 22; Recent Works at Tina Kim Gallery, New York opening end of April 2012; Recent Drawings in collaboration with Reza Farkhondeh, Kukje Gallery, Seoul, Korea, October 2012